Hello and welcome to this virtual event about water. The topic of today's discussion is water optimization in cleaning and cooling for hygienic production. My name is Hannah Overson and I will be your host and moderator today. We have an hour at our disposal today. We will start with a debate to take the temperature on the pressure on clean water resources. Then I have invited Fiona Lieberhens from Tetra Pak, Alpha Laval's Global Alliance Partner. We move on from there to hear from three of Alpha Laval's experts in water optimization and then we'll share a case and highlighted solution. And last but not least, we go to the panel discussion to answer your questions. And you are obviously very welcome to enter your questions into the chat function. And just so that you know, your questions will be anonymized. And finally, I should say there will be polls appearing on your screen. So please answer your questions. answer the polls when they appear. And with that, I turn to the first debate. So with me in the studio, I have Ileen Silen, Water Industry Manager for the Food and Water Division in Alpha Laval. And I have Imran Rashid, BU President in the Food and Water Division, but also here today in his capacity as heading up the industry group, the group of industries served by the Food and Water Division in Alpha Laval. So first, if I turn to you, Ileen. In early May, you participated in the Global Water Summit in Paris. This is a big event for the water industry and many, many discussions. What is your single most important takeaways from the many discussions over the days in Paris? Thank you, Hannah. My biggest takeaway from the summit is that climate change keeps adding pressure to industrial production. And that is reflected in either water stress or flooding or more legislation. And because of that increased pressure, it has a stronger impact on business continuity. So therefore, business continuity is becoming more and more challenged about climate change. And I would say that that is then driving more incentives to safeguard water and invest in water security. Do you think, I mean, you participated in the Global Water Summit last year as well. Do you think we're in a different place today than we were last year? Yeah, definitely. I would say that this year, this investments towards water security and more companies, taking leadership in corporate water stewardship is spreading across industries. So I would see much more end users and more utilities committed to the water challenge. Imran, the pressure on clean water resources is something that we see growing in our interaction. With customers. So, but why is the optimization of the use of water in industrial production for cleaning and cooling a particular area of interest when you're looking at it? Yeah, I mean, first of all, I would like to agree with Aline what she mentioned about the growing pressure on the industries itself as well. And that's what we see out there as well, because water is not an infinite resource. I mean, there is a limited amount of availability itself as well of water. And if we are not using that water carefully in the industries in different applications, I mean, then it creates another problem and another challenge. And if you want to create a link and you see and follow through the water across the chain within any specific industry, whether it's a food industry, beverage industry or the pharma industry itself as well. You see, the more water you use, this means the more water is needed to transport, the more you are, you know, using it and then you are disposing it off and then more water is required, you know, for heating, cooling that water itself as well. That has a pressure on both the utility resources and also, I mean, having a problem on the energy side itself as well. And then at the end itself also, then you have to treat that water as well. So this means that we have to be really mindful, you know, when selecting the innovations that are there to make sure that we are using less and less water to do the same amount of work that we are even more and more efficiently as well in the industries. So this is a key area to focus on. I know, of course, that there are many proven solutions already and we're working very hard to make the business cases work for our customers to put those proven solutions to better use. But we also have solutions that are not necessarily adapted or scaled for the application or the industry where they could be used. So what is Al-Flaven's role in this? Yeah, I think, I mean, more and more, I mean, as we see, I mean, the customers are challenged from the business continuity point of view itself as well. I mean, our role as an industry partner, is to listen to the needs and demands from the industries and the challenges that they are facing in those industries itself as well. And being, you know, a 140 year old company itself as well, and still continuing to innovate itself as well and creating the pioneering positive impact across all the industries. We bring those insights back into our R&D and any products that we develop. I mean, that is our prime focus as well as well. Yes, we need to bring energy efficiency itself as well. But we have to make sure that we use less of these resources such as water, which is very important for us. So our role as an industry leader and innovator itself is to just make sure that when we innovate, we are looking into those challenges and providing the solutions to our customers in such a way that they can run their productions and in a very efficient manner using less of these resources. What is the value of Alphavar serving many different industries? I mean, is there value of cross-fertilization across industries here where we can contribute maybe even more? Yes. I mean, if you look at different industries, I mean, there are different challenges. Water is one of the very common challenges as well. I mean, along with a few others. I mean, it could be slightly different in a beverage application. It could be slightly different in the pharma application. But still, this is a challenge. People want to reuse. People want to use less water. You know, from the treatment point of view, they want to use less and less. So we have, we as an industry leader going, having our products and our technologies into many different industries and applications also facilitate different, between different industries where we can use best industry examples. Yeah. So we have to use best practices. So we have to use best practices. So we have to use best practices as well. So we have to use best practices on their own. But we, having, you know, a know-how and knowledge of across different industries, we can play that role where we can take a best industry example and apply it into others itself as well, wherever applicable. Yeah. And this is also an important factor when it comes, Eileen, to what was widely discussed at the Global Water Summit in Paris. There was a general call across the water industry to set a target of 50% reuse of water by 2040. Do you care to comment on this and how you see this? Yeah. So basically, to become more secure against water, the different water challenges, I would use an analogy with if I want to reduce risks, then if I want to invest in something, I would not invest in one thing. But to limit the risk, I would actually spread my investment in different areas. And that's the same for water. Because an industry can be faced with an extreme drought one year, having maybe compliance pressure, some in the future, etc. So what I've learned is the strategy to mitigate against climate risk or water risks is to have different options. possible. And why water reuse has been the focus here is because about 7 to 12% of the global wastewater is reused. So it's an untapped potential. And therefore, water reuse is going to be exploding in the next decade, because it's going to be one key option to consider for water security. Sometimes when we discuss what we can do with Alpha-Lavalza, a range of solutions, we also talk about turning, making industries water positive. That is, that they de facto become water generators for the local community. I know you recently visited a dairy. Could you take some, could you explain to us what what's the sort of key insight in terms of really reusing or the potential for reusing water? Yeah, so a dairy, especially in cheese production, the raw material, which is milk, contains a lot of water. And when cheese is produced, we actually need to remove all that water. So in theory, a dairy can become water positive. And there are actually dairies today that are water positive. And for that specificity, that plant had already reversed. And in a specific case, that plant had already reversed osmosis in their production line to reuse that water coming from the milk inside their processes. But there were still a lot of areas where we could reduce water consumption, recycle even more water. And then the last step, which is the wastewater treatment and wastewater treatment. So even on a lot of water consumption, we could reduce water consumption. So even on a quite advanced plant that has already thought about water circulation, there's always areas where more can be done to reach water positive. Water positive should be like the vision or the ultimate mission to reach. There's a lot of talk about incentives for this. Are we moving to a situation where we can see, especially food producers, taking a much bigger responsibility in the upstream supply chain for the water footprint, for instance, in the case of the water positive dairy, actually delivering the water for the cows to water the cows that deliver the milk for the dairy? There are industries that have been having corporate water initiatives for maybe more than 20 years. Those are the pioneers. And within their organization, they have a whole team that have a whole team that is dedicated into water resilience and how that specific plant in that area has an impact on the ecosystem. And that goes back to me and sustainability in general is to change from a linear mindset into an ecosystem mindset. And that's valid for carbon, supply chain, water as well. So it is. And I think there is more and more understanding about how this specific industry impacts the local ecosystem. Imran, I want to get back to you because there are obviously when we talk water resilience, when we talk water security, there's a very general concern in many parts of the world about business continuity when it comes to the pressure on clean water. And I think there are always what is this ecosystem is to help water. What is it? What is it? Alpha LaVal can do to empower companies in different industries to navigate this? I mean, it is definitely a problem and we have seen examples in many different parts of the world where it has actually resulted in business continuity problems and it has created shutdowns of certain production plants itself as well. So this is happening here and now, today. So what we as Alfa Laval, you could say, can do in this area is to really, you know, I mean, our role and task is to continue to innovate based on the needs of our customers and develop the products that are really fit for purpose and help you in terms of reuse of water, reuse, I mean, using less water and less energy itself as well. So then we empower our customers to make the choice. I mean, when they are selecting new products, when they are looking into their complete systems and when they are looking into the solutions to reuse water or create the ecosystem that you talk about, Aline, that we give the opportunity, you could say, to our customers because we are the ones who are innovating and empowering you to make the decision, which is very important and also long term and also for the future. not only, I mean, for the business, but also for the planet as well. In terms of Alfa Laval's role, there's a lot of talk, and this was also a talk at the Global Water Summit, about how the financing comes along for, to actually make this happen, the deployment of the solutions. Is there more we could do at Alfa Laval's role, to enable, to make the business cases work for our customers? Yeah, I mean, there are, I mean, definitely, I mean, what we can see now is that there is a lot of thoughts, I mean, from the customer's perspective and the customer mindset itself also, where they are also, I mean, looking into how these technologies and solutions, you could say, can be financed, you could say, can be financed, itself, also. And, we from Alfa Laval, you know, perspective, can also help and facilitate that in many different ways. But I think the, it's the most important, you know, aspect, you could say, around this, is that we understand that this is a challenge, which we need to overcome. And if we do not finance this properly, either, you know, from the perspective of, you could say, the industry, or from the innovators like us, I mean, this will not be resolved. And that could become a business, you could say, continuity problem and business continuity issue. I mean, and we have different solutions available. I mean, that can help and facilitate the customers in terms of calculating their total cost of ownership and, you know, bridging the business cases. much quicker and much faster. That can lead to those investments as well. So, should industries, once they understand the water risks, they understand the implications of not being able to sustain production, should they, for instance, maybe accept a longer payback time on some solutions? And should we be able to maybe better show the value of what we're delivering? I think, I mean, when it comes to, I mean, most of the business cases that I have seen, I mean, that have been pretty viable, and that fall into the category of, you could say, I mean, the investment that some of the boards that want to, you could say, want to get into itself as well. So that fall into that category. I think, I mean, if they do not, I think it's very important for all of us to understand that this is a big business risk. I mean, then you have to also evaluate what you want to, what we, what the industry want to achieve. I mean, do they want to take a risk on the business continuity or want to do that investment that provides and delivers two things, the continuity of the business and also efficiency of the plans and also securing the future and the better future for the planet. And I think you cannot put a financial value to that. Eileen, now we talked about cross-fotilisation earlier. At the Global Water Summit, there was a lot of talk about data centres using a lot of water for cooling. There were also examples of data centres and companies running the data centres where they really put a lot of effort into their water management. Is there something we can learn when it comes to the food and beverage and pharma industries by looking at completely different industries like data centers? I think the water challenge, like Imran mentioned earlier, is a common challenge for everyone. And then what is relevant for one industry might be equivalent, relevant for others. When it's regards to data center cooling, I mean, there's been a lot of focus on reducing water consumption as much as possible. But the demand is going to increase. And that is the same for food production, for energy production with population growth. That demand is going to increase. So the main takeaway for all of these industries is to optimize as much as possible and have more yield. And that's where we are experts at in Alfa Laval. Thank you very much. And with that, we go to the next part of our virtual event. I will be talking to Fiona Lieberhens, who works for Alfa Laval's global alliance partner, Tetra Pak. Fiona Lieberhens is VP, Processing Key Components, Plant Solutions and Channel Management. Welcome, Fiona, to the event. I know you're tuning in from Tetra Pak's office in South Korea. Tetra Pak is a leading equipment manufacturer and integrated line solutions provider for the food and beverage industry. And that's obviously where you complement Alfa Laval very well. Now, when we talk about water optimization and cleaning and hygienic food and beverage production, how relevant is this topic when we look at the overall picture? Thanks a lot for having me, first of all. And I can say it's very relevant. Water is fundamental to food and beverage manufacturing operations, yet scarcity, quality, regulation, and rising costs, and rising costs, and rising costs. In fact, a business-to-business research that we conducted with manufacturers shows that 85% of food and beverage companies identify supply chain challenges, such as raw material shortages and rising costs as the biggest operational concerns. Reducing water next to energy, chemicals, and waste across operations leads to increased profitability, leads to increased profitability, while enhanced efficiency, of course, supports also sustainability goals. Prolonged water scarcity is the fourth most important challenge impacting businesses' strategy today. And when we look at regions, for instance, for Jameer in South America, it's even the most important challenge. Approximately 20% of Tetra Pak's customers are barely overall business resilience. By minimizing the water consumption. They can reduce both costs and environmental impacts. Also, I think it's really important to mention that the word general needs to speed up water action forward. This would make it possible to give everyone access to clean water by 2030. Water has long been underprioritized among environmental initiatives, but is now, fortunately, really gaining momentum. For this reason, the industry is actively exploring sustainable water management solutions, such as implementing water efficient technologies, recycling and reusing water within processes, and optimizing production workflows next to closely monitoring water usage. Consequently, also we as Tetra Pak have put a strong focus on solving those customer challenges in our industry, successfully successfully for the past years. That's great to hear. When you consider Tetra Pak's offering and your role as an integrated line solutions provider, where do you see the biggest gain from deploying the solutions you have today? Well, I would say the biggest gain lies in our integrated approach that targets both immediate and long -term improvements across the production process. Firstly, our resource efficient technologies, for instance, water efficient homogenizers and best practice lines are designed to reduce water and chemical use right from day one. For example, our best practice line for yogurt milk with one step technology can reduce water up to 49%. Secondly, we help producers turn waste water into a resource. Through advanced membrane filtration, water used in production can be recovered, filtered, and reduced, reducing not only the water consumption, but also waste water discharge. This provides massive, and I'm talking about 90% reuse, improvements in reducing, chemical consumption as an added benefit. Third, for producers looking to get more out of their existing equipment, we offer targeted upgrades. And finally, to ensure these improvements are sustained, our digital tools give producers real-time visibility into water and chemical usage, enabling smarter decisions and faster corrective actions, what are also considered to be really important. In essence, the biggest gain comes from the synergy of these solutions, bringing all of these together, cutting-edge equipment, process optimization, and digital intelligence to drive sustainable water use and, of course, reduce also operational costs. We also conduct sustainability assessments at customers to identify where the greatest opportunities are, be it a quick win or more long-term plan. It is also worth saying that all of these solutions don't just offer benefits to water optimization. They can typically also impact multiple utility consumption. And we suggest that this benefit is also be leveraged because it also makes the business case more affordable. There's a lot happening that is quite obvious from what you're sharing here. And it is also obvious that things are developing very fast. When you look a bit more fast. When you look a bit into the future, where are we going with this? What do you see ahead of us? Well, I think it's also important to look at the facts. And the UN predicts that water demand will outstrip supply with 40% by 2030. That also means that around 700 million people risk being deplaced by intense water shortage. But this warning, of course, of course, of course, of course, of course, also offers a great opportunity. The business opportunities of investing in water security are estimated at 711 billion US dollars. And for that reason, I see, we see the demand being further rising as cost and regulation rise and the above-mentioned solutions we've talked about becoming more extended integration in all plant operations, especially the aspect of digitalization. Especially the aspect of digitalization and automation. We see us as leading companies in this field playing a major role for this transformation and also supporting our customers in their individual journeys down this road. Thank you very much, Fiona, for tuning in and taking the time for us. I have to say on a personal note that I'm really glad that Tetra Pak is our global alliance partner because I can see how Tetra Pak complements Alfa Laval in this respect. And with that, I would like to pass the word on to our first expert speaker here in the studio in Lund. And that is Alan Broen, who is a business developer and works with Alfa Laval solution Thinktop. Thank you, Hanna. Imagine a world where water is either too scarce or too abundant, but never just right. This is the reality in many places around the world already today. And according to climate projections, it's a reality we will all face in the near future. That some of us will have too little water and some of us will have too much water. Hardly any of us will have just the right amount. And it's also about timing. When does the water come? Because increasingly we see that we will get more precipitation during the wet season when we don't need it and less during the dry season. So periods of drought are replaced by heavy rain creating floods. And the end effect is that our freshwater resources either dry out or get increasingly polluted. The first step that we can all take to mitigate these effects is to use less water. If your need is reduced, your risk is reduced. And reducing risk is of course attractive. But the necessary changes need to be paid for. So as for any other investment decision, there must be a reasonable return on investment. Even with the latest price increases, water abstraction globally is very cheap. And in some places it's even free. But there's more to this equation. Water is pre-treated. It is pumped. And it is heated. And when discharged, the treatment is energy intensive. This means there is a strong correlation between water and energy consumption. In fact, if you're looking to save energy, you should have a look at your water consumption. Very likely, your highest energy costs are associated with the use of water. To save energy, follow the water. And this is exactly what one of our customers in the US did. They followed the water to find energy savings. And reducing water consumption reduces risk whilst also being financially attractive. And that is very clear from these examples. Together with Alfa Laval, this customer reviewed their process to assess what possibilities they had. And one stood out to upgrade the valve control units. And use what is known as the Think Top burst function. Doing this would reduce the water consumption by up to 90%. And that change would be paid for in less than half a year. Such a short payback is only possible because you include the cleaning in place requirements for chemicals and for heating and for treatment. And when the volume of water is reduced. And when the volume of water is reduced, all of that CIP liquid is equally reduced. But perhaps in this case, the biggest impact was actually from the reduction in wastewater. Wastewater is not only expensive to treat, often it is also the bottleneck that limits production. If there is not enough capacity to treat, often it is also the same. If there is not enough capacity to handle the wastewater, production has to stop. The volume and content of wastewater is one of the most urgent challenges reported to us by our customers. So to calculate the return on investment of reducing water dependency, the entire process from water abstraction through processing to wastewater handling must be included. The Think Top burst function that I am talking about here, that was used to achieve these water savings, was invented when a new sensor technology was paired with the creative thinking of a food engineer, who questioned the way we had controlled the valves for ever, basically. He was on site at a dairy, who was more than happy to test this idea that he had, and make sure, of course, that the proper cleaning was maintained. Indications from that test showed that, apparently, most of the water that they used for cleaning could be saved. Obviously, it required a lot of testing to prove that it actually worked. After all, when you reduce consumption by 90% off, you must have a lot of testing to be saved. You must have a lot of testing. You must have doubts. So you test, and you retest, and then you ask others to test for you and together with you. And, of course, we know the devil is in the detail. Every process, every product is special. And that is why we have an application and innovation center where we can test Alpha-Laval technologies using specific food and drinks products delivered by our customers. Valve control units are, of course, of course, of course, of course, not the only way of reducing water dependency. And whether your challenge is too little, too much, or too dirty water, Alpha-Laval has ways to support your efforts. Thank you. And now I'll hand it over to Anna Andres. Thank you, Alan. Water scarcity is a significant issue impacting many regions around the world, particularly those with substantial dairy production. Firstly, it affects the feed crop yield. Secondly, it directly affects the health and productivity of the dairy cows. And lastly, it affects the processing of the milk. Let's look at the processing step. Dairy processing plants consume, on average, 1.5 cubic meters of water per cubic meters of processed milk. Consumption varies enormously based on the type of products produced, and it ranges between 1 to 10 cubic meters of water per cubic meter of milk. Key dairy producing regions affected are California in the United States, Australia, large parts of Europe, India, and several parts in Africa and Asia, more or less the entire globe. The dairy industry is all about prioritizing the highest hygienic standards throughout production. And water is key to assure high quality dairy products. Water is used for cleaning, heating and cooling, and sanitation. A large part of the water consumed is in the cleaning of the dairy pasteurizer. A unit operation found in almost all dairies around the world. And in many cases, the water used in this cleaning is sent to drain and not recovered. Introducing Alpha Laval XSent. This unique technology reduced biofilm in the pasteurizer by 90 to 99%. Biofilm is the number one stop criteria for dairy pasteurizer. With Xtend. With Xtend. We maintain product quality for longer, securing that the product is within specification. And enabling longer production runs and reduced CIP frequency. A dairy customer in Scandinavia producing 24 hours, 7 days a week, installed two Xtend on two processing lines about a year ago. They increased production time from 8 to 12 hours, lining up with production lengths on downstream equipment. This is a 30% reduction in cleaning and a 50% increase in uptime. Resulting in a yearly reduction of water consumption by 7,000 cubic meters of water. On top of that, they reduced their energy consumption by 100,000 kilowatt hours, pumping and heating. And reduction of 35 tons of CIP chemicals that they do no longer need. With the introduction of Alpha Laval XSent, the running time of the milk pasteurizer can be extended significantly. We have results showing that with the introduction of Xtend, you can comfortably run your pasteurizer for up to 12 hours or longer compared to today's 6 to 8 hours. Saving one or three year CIPs or even more. This does not only reduce water consumption, but also reduce the amount of effluent that needs to be treated. Effluent volumes that on average sit at the same level as water consumed per cubic meter of milk processed. Milk is a highly complex system and its composition and microbiological quality affects the efficiency of processing equipment, especially the heat exchanger. We at Alpha Laval XSent. We at Alpha Laval XSent. We at Alpha Laval XSent. We at Alpha Laval XSent know that the type of microorganisms in the milk depend on a number of different parameters, such as feed, whether the cow spent most of their time inside or outside, and seasonality, to name a few. And we understand the number of different parameters. And we understand the need to validate every process change. So we offer you the opportunity to test and validate Xtend against your process and your product specifications in your production plant before you commit to a purchase. Xtend is a plug and play setup and it can easily be installed without changing your current equipment. The team working with Xtend will be happy to support you on your change journey. And on a final note, biofilm formation problems is not unique to the dairy pasteurizer. And we are in parallel working on other possible applications for this technology. Thank you. And now I hand over to Filippa Kinderdal. Thank you, Anna. So we cannot afford any longer to put water to drain. And this is not just a goal. It's a necessity. And as one of our customers states here, it's not an option. It's a responsibility. And we fully agree with that. So if we go a few years back, when we started to look into this, we started to look at the non-contaminated water streams going out of the Alfa Laval separators. And we focused on how we could recirculate these in a smart and efficient way. And this was the starting point for Optivia, our water saving unit for high speed separators. So as the world continues to strengthen its regulations on water use in food production, there are many companies working hard to understand their water risks and how they can improve their water footprint. And companies are focusing on reducing the amount of water needed in their processes, increasing the overall efficiency of water needed for cleaning and cooling, while recovering and reusing as much water as possible. And this is a challenging task, especially for the coffee manufacturers, as coffee production is a very water intensive production. And in fact, the UN estimates that it takes 140 liters of water to grow, process and transport enough with coffee beans for just one single cup of coffee. So together with Alfa Laval, our customer and coffee producer, Prozol, has significantly reduced its overall water consumption and is now saving thousands of liters of water every day by reusing water that was previously lost to the drain. So at the time, this customer was looking into potential water reduction measures at its plants in the north of Spain, where 240 liters of fresh water where 240 liters of fresh water every hour were going to drain straight down the drain after cooling the Alfa Laval high speed separator. And this resulted in a total of almost 6,000 liters every day. So by installing our Optivia technology, it meant that Prozol could recover the cooling water and use it to flush the machine after every discharge. So before it was going to waste. So before it was going to waste. But now we are collecting it in Optivia and reusing it. So making sure that every drop counts. The Optivia development team have been in close collaboration with customers. And this is the way we like it. In this way, we are developing new innovative products together with our customers, making sure that our future products are tailored to our customers' needs. And the key message for our customers' needs. And the key message for the Optivia development have been simplicity and cost efficiency. A plug and play unit with a feasible payback time for the customers. So for example, at Nils Oskar, a craft brewer in Sweden, we have been working close to the installation by collecting live data from the Optivia installation. And this to learn and to improve the product together with our customers. So the simplicity of the product is really appreciated by our customers. And just as the brewmaster at Nils Oskar here says, I don't have to worry about what it's doing. I can focus on the beer. I don't even have to think of it. I just have to turn it on. It really shows that the Optivia truly is creating peace of mind for our customers. So as I previously mentioned, during the development of the Optivia technology, we have been in close collaboration with our customers. We started testing at brewer and beverage customers, and now we are moving towards other applications as well, such as edible oil, for example. We are also further, of course, developing the Optivia with additional features, continuously improving the product. So in the future, we aim, of course, to save every drop of water for all our separators in all different industries. And this is just the start of that journey. So thank you, and back to you, Hanna. Thank you, Philippa. And now we open up to take your questions. Please feel free to enter them into the chat. I also want to take the opportunity to encourage you to submit your replies to the two polls on the screen, which will also be part of our discussion during the next 15 minutes. We already have a first question in from you guys in the audience, and it relates to time-based versus data-based processing and how the more data-driven processing can help the optimization of resources, not only with respect to water, but also with respect to time and energy. I think, Imran, maybe you can give us an example of how we work in this field and what our experience is. Yeah. I mean, there are many different examples that we have, but I can just think of one that comes to my mind from the data-driven point of view that is really helping one of our, you know, customers. And that is in—for our gasketed plate heat exchanger in Scotland. I mean, we are working with one of our customers itself, where they have already an established process of, you could say, running a cleaning cycle after a certain period of time, in number of days and number of hours. And then by connecting, you know, we are working with one of our customers. And then by connecting, you know, our condition monitoring solution to that heat exchanger, we are able to show that customer itself that they do not need, you know, to do this activity or perform that cleaning, you know, in that amount of time itself. So they can really, you know, take even longer time to do that cleaning cycle itself. So I think, I mean, that is a very clear data-driven approach from, from that perspective itself. So I think, I mean, that is one clear example that comes to mind. But I think, I mean, then we have to make sure that we, you know, we show—we ensure the customer that this solution is reliable, they understand these type of—the process and see, I mean, visually by themselves that, yes, it is working and then able to change that particular process going forward. And that could really save a lot of water in the system. And then, obviously, when you do the cleaning of water, you need to do the, I mean, wastewater treatment also. And then this means if you have less water going towards waste, this means less cost to treat that water as well. Excellent. Now, the digitization of processes is a big development and not just in Al-Falemans. Would you care to elaborate, Aline, on what we're doing in this field and what the thinking is? Of course. And Imran just mentioned one of them. It's condition monitoring. And that's not only applied on our heat exchanges, but on a big range of our own equipment. And that's the first step towards self -optimized equipment and in the future, autonomous equipment. So we are very—our teams in that R&D space are very busy working on that right now. Yeah. Excellent. I go to the next question. And it relates to CAPEX spending and seeing the potential of becoming water positive. There are two aspects of this, and that is partly how to get the financial people and the marketing slash communication people to understand the value of the CAPEX spending here. I open up to a bit of free discussion here. Do you want to start, Aline, or—? Yeah, there is an aspect where, I mean, if there is a water risk assessment made, then the CAPEX investment makes sense because it will ensure business continuity. An example is if there is not enough water to produce, then that is an immediate business risk. So, therefore, investing in safeguarding water and having what was mentioned earlier in the debate with Imran, having different options against that, is the insurance policy for the business continuity. Yeah. Alan, what are the concrete discussions you hear out there when you engage with Alfa-Lawels customers in this kind of discussions? Yeah, well, it certainly always have to make financial sense, what we do. And I don't know if you go all the way to water positive, if that, you know, return on investment would be positive. But certainly it will take you a long way, depending on where you are in your journey towards saving water. It's probably the best investment that you can make right now. A lot of these things have a payback time of less than two years, for sure, and very often six months or even less. So, if it will take you all the way to water positive, I can't say for sure. That depends on many factors. But it's a good investment. When does it make sense to become water positive for marketing people and communication people, Imran? When do they see the value of this? I think, I mean, it's a very important topic overall for any, you know, brand itself as well. And I think, I mean, if any brand whatsoever from the customer perspective and the customer point of view, they look at, I mean, they look at, I mean, their overall, you know, I mean, company branding from the company brand perspective and, I mean, public relations perspective. And I think, I mean, and the positioning that they are taking out there in the market itself as well. I mean, for them, I think at that time, if they can also, that could also generate a lot of value for that particular brand if they can really show that they are water positive and, you know, in their manufacturing and the overall footprint itself as well. So, I think, I mean, from the marketing and communication side, I think it's even more, you could say, positive from the image of the brand perspective itself. But I would also like to add, I mean, a couple of things to what has been said earlier as well and echo the points of what my colleagues have said, that we have to look at, you know, when we are, you know, having these Capex decisions. I think it is very important for, for, from the customer perspective and the customer point of view and the people who are making those decisions, that they also, they look at the, their business continuity or their risks that are involved, you know, by having, having a lot of water being consumed and, you know, itself. And then, whenever they evaluate any product, system, solution, they also have to look at the complete and total cost of ownership. That will also guide them towards a right decision itself and to develop the water resilience that, you know, I mean, Alan talked about for the future as well. And it's a journey. It's not a quick fix, but at least that has to be the mindset. Mm-hmm. And if I may add as well with, related to the, the marketing aspect of water positive, it's also important that, I mean, water has been taken for granted for, for, for, for a long time. We consider it free because it comes from nature and there's a change needed in that perception. And, and there's a pressure due to climate change where, where, where, where that is adding business risk. But I think the role also of, of, of, of, of the marketing aspect is that no, no, no, nobody has the solution for everyone. Everyone has to contribute and work together. And that's also the role of marketing is to spread the message about we are water positive. And by doing that, maybe others will follow. So, and that's, that's the importance of it. Yeah. I want to hear, introduce one of the, the results from the first poll we released in terms of where our audience see the most benefit from implementing reuse solution. And that is actually in relation to reduce freshwater consumption. Anna, when you, what, what is the, the discussion and, and when you, in, how you interact with, with, with, with dairies specifically here when it comes to, to, to, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, in cleaning and cooling and, and, and, and, and what are the plans for Xtend as one of the solutions here? Um, the discussions are, are, are, are always around, um, this is a process that, that uses quite a lot of water. Um, and, uh, quite a lot of the customers that we come across are either in regions where water is, you actually have to pay for it. Uh, you actually have to pay for it. for it or where you have to get it in for somewhere else or you are at parts of the year at limits of how much water you can take out, even if you have your own bores. So finding water that you don't have is a necessity for most of these customers. I would say globally today, not all of them, for sure, but we are getting there, region by region. So installing a product like Xtend where you can cut your water consumption dramatically with one product or products where you can combine several to find little bits, pieces here and there, this is where we need to go. And Xtend is cutting dramatically in the dairy pasteurizer, for sure. And the plan for Xtend is to adapt this for other parts of the dairy processing? Yes. Xtend works on biofilm. That's the technology. So every position, every equipment that we have that is limited by biofilm, where we stop to CIP because of the biofilm, this is where we see potential. And this is where we have ongoing testing at the moment. for two or three of those equipments. So hopefully very shortly we'll be able to show you some more. If we turn to the next question from the audience, it relates to another industry, but probably an industry that's become known to suffer the most from the effects of the climate changes, and that is the wine industry. So the question is what equipment Alfa Laval offers in terms of enabling water reuse. Maybe a question here to start with you, Philippa. Yeah, I mean, of course, if you're using a separator in your wine process, then you can have the Optivia installed. So then you can limit your water consumption for the separator. But I mean, of course, you can also use a decanter in wine processing. Maybe you know about the ethylene. Yeah, so we have actually a customer in New Zealand that has installed a decanter and replaced a traditional press. And they have saved more than half of the water that is used for that process by switching a technology that consumes less water. A second part of the question relating to the wine industry is, if I understand it correctly, it relates to the reuse of CIP water. Alan, this may be a question for you. Can you say something about the reuse of CIP water, the water for cleaning in place? Yeah, sure. So, CIP—I actually think that when we talk about water, most of the time we actually talk about CIP liquid, because of the industry that is where we use the bulk of the water, right? But CIP is widely reused in many industries, and why not in the wine industry? It's something that you can do whenever you don't drain the CIP. In some cases, you have to drain the CIP liquid. And when you don't, of course, you can reuse it. Typically, for tank cleaning, you recirculate maybe 50 times, something like that. So, that can be done, for sure. Yeah. So, by the sound of it, there are opportunities in the wine industry as well? Absolutely. Right. We're coming down to the final minute of our event, unfortunately. Just before I open up to the last question, I just want to share with you that in our second poll, 67 percent of you said that you are exploring solutions to reuse water within your production process within the next three to five years. And that is obviously good news for Laval and its partners, Nicholas Tusset. Thank you. Imran, our last question for you is, it is obvious from the discussions and the event today that different industries, different solutions. What is the common approach, if you take a cross-industry perspective here? I think, I mean, here, I mean, in our discussion today also, water is, I mean, the common thread. And I think developing water resilience is the key. And I think we can, we know, we talked about it. It's not a solution that anyone has here and now, but it's a journey we have to, you could say, start at some point now. And also, some have started earlier itself. And we, as Al-Falawal, being a transformation leader, have previously and will continue to innovate the products which will enable and also empower you as our customers to build and develop that resilience. Thank you very much to the panel. And thank you for tuning in to this event. Stay tuned for more. In our next event, we will be looking at the recovery and reuse of water in food and beverage processing to enable the minimization of water being transported across big distances. Thank you very much.